Car for daughter

MrElussive · Dec 19, 2004

dkagy said:

Welcome to the forum. In my opinion, 137K miles is kind of high....you're just asking for trouble for going with such a high mileage car. Is the 740 a vehicle that your daughter specifically wants? Youngens tend to prefer the 3-series and you can get a much lower mileage, older BMW 3-series in better condition for a similar price, and she will still be very safe in it.

Average Jae · Dec 19, 2004

thanks eric for calling me out like a man, and posting up lots of pics to support it. and man, thos pics are still loading, which is making typing this post a bit annoying.. still. here is what i think about car's safety ratings. (now this is general, but hear me out.) SUVs tend to be heavier, much heavier than cars infact. and in crash tests, car/ SUV's own weight is the biggest enemy/ally. small cars like mini will have easier time holding up such tests w/ less reinforcements because the front structure has less weight to deal with.

in real world, if the mini collides w/ a much heavier sedan, or a SUV, i highly doubt it'll fare as well. and if on the roads, all you saw were minis, then everything would be ok, but it seems number of SUVs grow by the day..

the F150 crash is just amazing tho. best selling pickup in the states, and buckling under its own weight!

epj3 · Dec 19, 2004

MrElussive said:

Before you chime in with your stupid thoughts, read the thread.

Average Jae said "
Originally Posted by Average Jae
i hate to say it, but if the safety is an issue, get her a SUV. nothing like a good ole hunk of steel from detroit for a budding driver who's prone to run into things.. not that i'm implying anything."

Thats why I posted the american SUV's that we are talking about. Not everyones parents buy them a brand new Lexus or BMW SUV. I posted one of EVERY suv from every company that was listed on IIHS's website (I didn't post duplicates, like the Explorer and Mountaineer or Blazer and Jimmy).

I also posted cars that they would be interested in assuming that they are looking for cars in the same class as a BMW. I think my post was VERY valid and you're just looking to add your thoughts - even how unrelated or unhelpful they might be.

epj3 · Dec 19, 2004

Average Jae said:

You are right - but I still wouldnt say its THAT much safer. Honestly, an inexperienced driver is either going to hit something solid by making a mistake, or pulling out in front of someone - most likely when she's not moving all that fast. But say she's driving down the highway and is ran off the road at 70mph... She's going to be MUCH better off in a BMW than almost any large truck. My 1988 325is held up MUCH better than the brand new audi A8 that hit me nearly head on. His car was totaled too, in fact it knocked his DASH off its mounts!!! My car is repairable but I chose to look for another car.

mousecrab · Dec 19, 2004

Jae made a good point. Agree that SUV are poorly built. But the fact in a real world collision the smaller/light yet saver cars can likely ended in more damage that those poorly designed and built SUV. Weight is one big factor, another one is that SUV are much higher, so in a head on collision a SUV could be hitting a car's (specially low profile sport cars) windsheid rather than the bumber... I remember reading an artical that said it will become a law requirement that SUV needs to lower their height because of this DANGER to other passager cars on the road. I strongly disgree with one's thought of getting a BIGGER and HEAVIER SUV or minivan just becasue it will make them feel saver and for some can avoid others blocking their vision of the road. This idea starts a bad chain effect and one day we will all be driving school buses and tanks just because others are doing so.
Back on topic, consider getting your 17 years old a save and easy to handle car and sent her for some savety driving school or something so that she can manager to drive better and saver.

MrElussive · Dec 19, 2004

There are two sides to this story. I think cars are definitely naturally safer in terms of protecting its occupants in an accident. But what if the accident is against a bigass SUV? What I'm trying to say is, if I were purchasing a new vehicle, I wouldn't lean more towards one type of vehicle (let's say a sedan vs a mid-size SUV), because one may be safer. As long as IIHS gives the car an overall rating of "Good" (and preferrably "best pick"), I am a happy camper.

I think it's also important to note that just because American car manufacturers have a hard time making a safe SUV it doesn't mean that all SUV's are lacking in the safety department. Checkout the IIHS crash test ratings on the BMW X5, Mercedes ML, Volvo XC90, Toyota 4Runner, Nissan Murano, Lexus GX470, Lexus RX330, Infiniti FX, among others. You'll see that the latest-model versions of all these SUV's received almost completely flawless ratings down the line and I would trust my life in any one of them (except the Murano because it looks like a spaceship [:p]

).

epj3 · Dec 19, 2004

MrElussive said:

I will point out we weren't talking ALL suv's, when Average Jae said detroit steel, and since we're talking used cars - I thought everyone was assuming that Average Jae's statement ment JUST domestic SUV's, and the topic of the forum ment used more affordable vehicles. Put the two together and my post does add to the topic at hand.

I like space ships [rofl]

Average Jae · Dec 20, 2004

detroit steel, i guess it really depends on how deep you want to look into it. last time i checked, the whole notion of SUVs, came from detroit no? that's what the statment meant, and i guess i should've clarified it, when making that semi joke. assumption.. well...

Eric, i'm just curious tho, how come the foreign SUVs made by the likes of BMWs, Lexus, Merc etc don't qualify, but foreign passenger cars from the same company qualifies for your list? since i'm not really understanding your logic, should i just go ahead and say that your logic is wrong?

"used, more affordable vehicles.." only "affordable" vehicles i saw on your car list was the civic and mini. maybe it's just me tho, and i'm assuming that everyone else on this board isn't butt loaded and can buy bimmers and such to their kids. but then you know about assumptions..

there are difference in views in the safety of the SUVs. i personally don't like them, because its a big hunk of a gas guzzler that makes other cars on the road unsafe! if i had a choice of cars to get hit by, i'd much rather pick a civic vs 3 ton SUV. but here is the thing, all things being equal, if i had a kid, i would feel much safer sending my kid out on a 3 ton hunk of steel, from wherever, than a civic! because face it, most of the accidents involve at least two parties. "unless you happen to hit a tree that came out of nowhere!" why take the extra chance? of course, such through process was one of the factors that led to what we see today.. *sigh*

mr. kagy, first off, sorry to jack your thread by making the SUV suggestion.
i'm not a fan of that 7er w/ so many miles, esp for your daughter. i know i'm being a sexist, but last thing i would want my daughter to be in is, in a broken down used car, not just middle of nowhere, but anywhere! i don't know her, so i can't say whether she'd take exceptional care of it, or even know how to. but also think of your peace of mind. (and i'm not saying that THAT car will breakdown anytime soon. but w/ the miles the way they are, and you never really know w/ a used car.) also w/ the car being the iL, that just means a bigger target for things like mailboxes when backing out, and other cars while attempting to parallel park. (i'm not being sexist here, i personally hate trying to manuver big ole cars into a tight spot. and had i a bigger car, my chance of hitting such things will go up!) just my really really long 2 cents.

MrElussive · Dec 20, 2004

epj3 said:

Not really.

Jae, it's also important to note that American SUV's don't have to meet the strict emissions requirements that foreign cars have to. It's funny how everybody wants to be so "environmentally friendly" and all that bullshit when the SUV's that our own country produces are the ones that are doing all the damage!

epj3 · Dec 20, 2004

Becuase average jae said "detroit steel" which means AMERICAN suv's. Not sure why this is so hard to understand why I made the comparison since OTHERS did too (BMW vs. getting her an american SUV).

epj3 · Dec 20, 2004

Average Jae said:

detroit steel, i guess it really depends on how deep you want to look into it. last time i checked, the whole notion of SUVs, came from detroit no? that's what the statment meant, and i guess i should've clarified it, when making that semi joke. assumption.. well...

Eric, i'm just curious tho, how come the foreign SUVs made by the likes of BMWs, Lexus, Merc etc don't qualify, but foreign passenger cars from the same company qualifies for your list? since i'm not really understanding your logic, should i just go ahead and say that your logic is wrong?

"used, more affordable vehicles.." only "affordable" vehicles i saw on your car list was the civic and mini. maybe it's just me tho, and i'm assuming that everyone else on this board isn't butt loaded and can buy bimmers and such to their kids. but then you know about assumptions..

there are difference in views in the safety of the SUVs. i personally don't like them, because its a big hunk of a gas guzzler that makes other cars on the road unsafe! if i had a choice of cars to get hit by, i'd much rather pick a civic vs 3 ton SUV. but here is the thing, all things being equal, if i had a kid, i would feel much safer sending my kid out on a 3 ton hunk of steel, from wherever, than a civic! because face it, most of the accidents involve at least two parties. "unless you happen to hit a tree that came out of nowhere!" why take the extra chance? of course, such through process was one of the factors that led to what we see today.. *sigh*

mr. kagy, first off, sorry to jack your thread by making the SUV suggestion.
i'm not a fan of that 7er w/ so many miles, esp for your daughter. i know i'm being a sexist, but last thing i would want my daughter to be in is, in a broken down used car, not just middle of nowhere, but anywhere! i don't know her, so i can't say whether she'd take exceptional care of it, or even know how to. but also think of your peace of mind. (and i'm not saying that THAT car will breakdown anytime soon. but w/ the miles the way they are, and you never really know w/ a used car.) also w/ the car being the iL, that just means a bigger target for things like mailboxes when backing out, and other cars while attempting to parallel park. (i'm not being sexist here, i personally hate trying to manuver big ole cars into a tight spot. and had i a bigger car, my chance of hitting such things will go up!) just my really really long 2 cents.

American sedans are also safer than their SUV brothers. NOT all suv's come from detroit, and whoever told you that is WRONG. From a design standpoint, only ford, GM, etc. come from detroit. From a manufacturing standpoint, there isn't much that comes from detroit itself anymore. BMW's sure aren't designed in detroit which is why I didn't bring up their suv's, but the original poster is TALKING about BMW's - someone said something about DOMESTIC suv's thats is WHY I MADE THE COMPARISON!!!
[?|]

MrElussive · Dec 20, 2004

I believe many of the car companies just out-source to the steel industry in general. Car manufacturers have a high demand for steel, and as usual, there is low supply. I believe Nissan even announced that they are going to cut back production because supply is just too low (low supply makes for higher prices, blah blah blah, we've all been through Economics 101).

Average Jae · Dec 20, 2004

epj3 said:

Duh! either i'm not typing well, i don't make any sense or you just don't understand what i'm saying. because that was my point too.. origin of SUVs is detroit no? thus my previous post, and the original post behind "detroit steel.." but let's just get back to topic now. i'm done talking about horrible crashing SUVs vs excellent crashing cars for this thread. you can have the last word on the matter if you want...

mousecrab · Dec 21, 2004

MrElussive said:

Can't agree more [headbang] part of the reason why we are paying high gas prices today is due to the excessive use of heavy, gas hungry SUV. The idea of 'Bigger is Better' should remains in the 60's and 70's but not in today's world. When are people going to start realize and remember the nighmare of the oil crisis. Sorry if I offened anyone but I believe we should always keep efficiency and necessary in mind. I know some would say how about those high power super car? Are they efficeint? are they necessary? Keep in mind how often you see them vs. SUV, also super car buyers are being charge big big $$$ for that as a (punishment) for not being environmentally friendy while SUV are way much cheaper.

MrElussive · Dec 22, 2004

mousecrab said:

Modern supercars typically run cleaner than American SUV's, believe it or not. GM owns Saab, in which their new 9-3 supposedly "cleans the air that it uses"....GM should learn a thing or two about emissions from their own sub-company !!!!!!!!!

echothreezero · Jan 4, 2005

OK, there is a time and a place for 4x4's - I drive a Toyota landcruiser and a 1942 WWII Willy's jeep but these are for towing a boat or trailer/load and off-road recreation in the weekends (of which the Willy's is the better performer - kick an H2's ass any day!)

But for day-to-day driving, I want a good-handling and performing, and safe car that dosn't cost the earth to run - hence my old 320i. Also, after seeing a friends car of the same age and model in a head-on, I am happy with its safety for the price range.

A big 4x4 is not the answer - ever tried to control one that has lost traction on a wet corner - forget it! But I can purposely slide the BMW out on the same corner at a higher speed and control the slide entirely on the throttle. Even an inexperienced driver would have an easier time controlling the smaller car, which would not lose it as easily in the first place anyway.

For the money you would like to spend I recommend a lower mileage 3 or 5 series eg and E36, E34 or E39. These are safe cars with good performance, handling and gas mileage - there is no way I'd put a 17yo (boy or girl) in a 4.0L V8 bus like that - forget it! If you don't need to buy BMW, try a Mercedes 190E, or Audi (like an 80, 100 or if the price is right A4).

Good luck, and she's a lucky girl - my parents never gave me a car, except the 1977 Escort panel van they let me drive in the weekends. My sister has a parent-provided mini.

Big Papa G · Jan 25, 2005

Folks,

After reading this rather "charged" topic i think that i would like to wade into this as well.

I agree with crab that the safest thing would be for you to invest into a car which is both safe and agile. The best way to handle an accident is to avoid one. Your daughter is all of 17. Lets play this out a little. The bigger the vehicle, the more people that she WILL pack into it. Mix in all of these people talking and distracting her, and her phone ringing, you have an accident ready to happen. You mentioned that she had a C70, correct? i would suggest that you keep her in a small coupe, either e36 or e46. This way she can still have a small safe car that will also not break the bank when it comes to daily operation. And the "cuteness" (i know i hate calling Bimmer's cute) factor will also be there as well. And lets face it, she wants cute. But for God's sake, dont paint it pink!!!!

iDriveSMG · Feb 4, 2005

ok ths thread is really off topic. To the guy who started this thread.. About the air bag light, go have a dealer or BMW shop use a OBD II scanner to see if their is any codes for the air bag. To other members, Volvo is great. Well my family have three volvos, including myself. I current drive a Volvo.

DRWWE · Feb 4, 2005

Getting back to the question of giving a teenager a 7 series...

A teenager will not appreciate a car like that. BMW's should be something you earn for yourself. If the child want's a BMW then she should buy it for herself so that she can really appreciate what a fine machine it is. I have seen too many spoiled rich kids driving around in the bimmers and benzes that daddy bought them and they just don't get it. Safety is one thing--their are many less costly cars around that are safe, and the last thing I'd want my kid driving is a car with lots of horsepower. Just an opinion.

Honda's are good cars for teens as are Toyota, VW, maybe even some of the smaller bimmers if you must go that route. Smaller cars are also more fun to drive. Again, just an opinion.

[driving2]

Bubba · Feb 7, 2005

I was surprised when I went to insure my 325 to learn it had the highest safety rating available at State Farm.

SUVs weight works against them, and single car accidents are more common than multi car accidents. Rollovers are rare in any vehicle, much less in cars than SUVs but they kill at a much higher rate. "Nearly two-thirds, or 61 percent, of all SUV fatalities involved rollovers." CNN.com

In an accident you are less likely to die in an SUV. No doubt about it, the stats are all over. However it seams that cars are better at staying out of accidents, so total deaths are equivalent.

My 325 contact patch is about the same size as a Suburban's. Guess who can maneuver out of the way better, or slow faster. When you are caught by surprise you are less likely to get into trouble in a car.

http://www.bridger.us/2002/12/16/CrashTestingMINICooperVsFordF150
"Drivers of the tiny Jetta die at a rate of just forty-seven per million, which is in the same range as drivers of the five-thousand-pound Chevrolet Suburban and almost half that of popular S.U.V. models like the Ford Explorer or the GMC Jimmy." from article in the NewYorker

Washington Post: Forty-nine people ages 15 to 20 died in SUV and pickup truck accidents in Maryland, Virginia and the District last year, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. The problem, researchers say, is that SUVs have a higher center of gravity and are harder to control in an emergency, which makes inexperienced teenage drivers more vulnerable.
Recent safety improvements to SUVs, a federal study found, are less likely to protect teenage drivers; like Sausville, they often drive older-model SUVs.
Teen SUV crashes, he said, "go back to driver behavior. That's playing a very big role."

Finally the best way to stay safe is to wear a seatbelt religously, and never drink and drive. The NTSB fatality reports are absolute; in over half of all highway deaths a seatbelt was not worn, in 40% alcohol was involved.

I think you should go with training, and a good condition 3 or 5 series.

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